Thank you for your comments. I totally agree with you. Ever since the Monica scandal, there has been a shift in this country. The value system has been effected. B.... job became a common practice in the schools (even in the elementary schools) and kids are thinking they are not having sex. Bill Clinton has effected this country more than we can see in a negative way. President is a reflection on the society, whether we like it or not. That's why this election is important for the next generation. Moral values are important. Don't forget if you are on the side of the evil, you are evil too. Hillary is married to Bill. How could she be different. However, I do respect Elif's points of view. Thanks again Ayse.
Best regards,
Melissa Broussard.
-----Original Message-----
From: ayse soyer <ayse.soyer@gmail.com>
To: Elif Iyriboz <elif_iyriboz@yahoo.com>
Cc: Richard Whittington <design@whittingtonandco.com>; Turkish-American-Democrats@yahoogroups.com; Daughters_of_Ataturk@yahoogroups.com; alpaslann@yahoo.com; AraArman@gecinc.com; aylink1@yahoo.com; Betzy@aol.com; rdlvdr@hotmail.com; sarikayafx@yahoo.com; depaula_fay210@yahoo.com; houstonmehmet@yahoo.com; cjtaznut@yahoo.com; kshort2644@yahoo.com; maglazer@gmail.com; mtergene@erols.com; Ozer.Arnas@usma.edu; philipckrebs@verizon.net; rlsexton@cox.net; simsek3@netzero.com; siliozerdim@hotmail.com; tdk22@att.net; vadam@gecinc.com; washingtonhaber@yahoogroups.com; melechlin@aol.com <melechlin@aol.com>; Figen Iyriboz <Kifybr@aol.com>; Yuruk Iyriboz <iyri@aol.com>; Ayse Iyriboz <aysedesign@gmail.com>; Matthew Serynek <matthew.serynek@kiodex.com>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:41 am
Subject: WHY OBAMA :
I take my hat off to you Elif Iyriboz for starting this stimulating dialogue, however, I totally agree with Richard's brief sociopolitical anaysis. And ,I as a two term staunch supporter of Clinton , I DO NOT FORGIVE them. I disagree with the comment: " Whatever these two did wrong previously is their responsibility" . I consider this , our, US THE DEMOCRATS' responsibility and I do not take it as lightly as Clintons did. I owe this to my children , to the lives and moral values sacrificed for the oil and greed war all over the globe. I see the drops of the blood spilled on my hands. Therefore ,I do not have the luxury of forgiving a two term leader of the USA wo has a great responsibilty navigating this boat right into the Bushes! What we need is not "a ittle change here and there " we need a democratic -sociopolitical revolution now. Clintons already have proven that they did not deserve the chance to " blaze a new path for our country " . Why should I select the one who should be the last one to trust! Remember the saying "if you are screwed twice , it is your fault" . It will be naive to beleive or hope that "Hillary and Bill "have TOTALLY or SIGNIFICANTLY different political views and moral values. It is not only the proverb "meyva agacindan uzaga dusmez" to support my view, also the commonsensical question: If the differences were of signifant manitude , how come they have been such firm supporters of each other? My husband may be a Republican and me a Democrat allright but would I be voting for his Party? As you can clearly see all they have is "Some differences in their agenda" which does not convince me that former first lady IS THE ONE who may steer us 90 degrees toward sunrise .. .... I strongly beleive ,since this old planet deserves better than just "7 degrees change of some of our policies" , we definitely need a navigator with new bleached white unstained sails..Lets all give a chance to Obama and have Hillary focus on the issues she may make a difference.. Sevgilerime ayse On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz <elif_iyriboz@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter. > I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not > discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've > responded to some of your comments below. > > Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is > ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda. > Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish > Hillary for their failures or misdeeds. > > Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They > were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon > agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the > inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I > agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential > candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a > country. > > Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact > that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education. > However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not > impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get > into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter > appointed her as congressional legal council. > > Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and > at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are > singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and > sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the > fairness in this argument. > > The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have > nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like > you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be > judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her. > > You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma. > Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very > lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this > issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She > has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's > voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on > health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to. > > As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY > senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a > wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with > the republicans. > > > Richard Whittington <design@whittingtonandco.com> wrote: > All, > > I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the > trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry > lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare > speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that > is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly > how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of > the issue in this election. > > More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to > respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of > Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a > lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation > to take the helm. > > The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary > Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in > Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of > authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she > says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except > poor judgement. > > And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood > in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable > perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential > candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and > was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of > the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six > figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he > chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the > streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10 > years at the University of Chicago Law School. > > Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at > Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was > sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she > received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their > income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it > says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in > the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some > dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering. > > Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush > years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to > Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and > never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The > Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi > Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from > a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the > dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic > oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in > government. > > In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show > (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable > to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be > inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be > heading instead of arguing about the past. > > Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired. > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE > > Richard Whittingon > > > -- > Whittington & Company > Graphic Design & Marketing Communication > 709 1/2 Texas Ave. > Austin, TX 78705 > > 512.474.9045 p > 512.474.9150 f > > design@whittingtonandco.com > www.whittingtonandco.com > > > > > > ________________________________ I take my hat off to you Elif Iyriboz for starting this stimulating dialogue, however, I totally agree with Richard's brief sociopolitical anaysis. And ,I as a two term staunch supporter of Clinton , I DO NOT FORGIVE them. I disagree with the comment: " Whatever these two did wrong previously is their responsibility" . I consider this , our, US THE DEMOCRATS' responsibility and I do not take it as lightly as Clintons did. I owe this to my children , to the lives and moral values sacrificed for the oil and greed war all over the globe. I see the drops of the blood spilled on my hands. Therefore ,I do not have the luxury of forgiving a two term leader of the USA wo has a great responsibilty navigating this boat right into the Bushes! What we need is not a ittle change here and there , we need a democratic -sociopolitical revolution now. Clintons already have proven that they did not deserve the chance to " blaze a new path for our country " . Why should I select the one who should be the last one to trust! Remember the saying "if you are screwed twice , it is your fault" . It will be naive to beleive or hope that "Hillary and Bill "have TOTALLY or SIGNIFICANTLY different political views and moral values. It is not only the proverb "meyva agacindan uzaga dusmez" to support my view, also the commonsensical question: If the differences were of signifant manitude , how come they have been such firm supporters of each other? My husband may be a Republican and me a Democrat allright but would I be voting for his Party? As you can clearly see all they have is "Some differences in their agenda" which does not convince me that former first lady IS THE ONE who may steer us 90 degrees toward sunrise .. .... I strongly beleive ,since this old planet deserves better than just "7 degrees change of some of our policies" , we definitely need a navigator with new bleached white unstained sails..Lets all give a chance to Obama and have Hillary focus on the issues she may make a difference.. Sevgilerime ayse On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz <elif_iyriboz@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter. > I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not > discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've > responded to some of your comments below. > > Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is > ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda. > Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish > Hillary for their failures or misdeeds. > > Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They > were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon > agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the > inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I > agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential > candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a > country. > > Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact > that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education. > However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not > impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get > into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter > appointed her as congressional legal council. > > Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and > at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are > singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and > sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the > fairness in this argument. > > The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have > nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like > you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be > judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her. > > You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma. > Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very > lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this > issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She > has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's > voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on > health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to. > > As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY > senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a > wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with > the republicans. > > > Richard Whittington <design@whittingtonandco.com> wrote: > All, > > I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the > trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry > lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare > speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that > is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly > how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of > the issue in this election. > > More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to > respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of > Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a > lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation > to take the helm. > > The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary > Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in > Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of > authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she > says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except > poor judgement. > > And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood > in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable > perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential > candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and > was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of > the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six > figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he > chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the > streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10 > years at the University of Chicago Law School. > > Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at > Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was > sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she > received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their > income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it > says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in > the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some > dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering. > > Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush > years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to > Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and > never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The > Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi > Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from > a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the > dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic > oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in > government. > > In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show > (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable > to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be > inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be > heading instead of arguing about the past. > > Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired. > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE > > Richard Whittingon > > > -- > Whittington & Company > Graphic Design & Marketing Communication > 709 1/2 Texas Ave. > Austin, TX 78705 > > 512.474.9045 p > 512.474.9150 f > > design@whittingtonandco.com > www.whittingtonandco.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > Reply Forward > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > Reply Forward On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz <elif_iyriboz@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter. > I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not > discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've > responded to some of your comments below. > > Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is > ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda. > Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish > Hillary for their failures or misdeeds. > > Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They > were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon > agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the > inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I > agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential > candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a > country. > > Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact > that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education. > However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not > impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get > into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter > appointed her as congressional legal council. > > Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and > at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are > singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and > sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the > fairness in this argument. > > The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have > nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like > you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be > judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her. > > You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma. > Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very > lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this > issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She > has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's > voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on > health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to. > > As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY > senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a > wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with > the republicans. > > > Richard Whittington <design@whittingtonandco.com> wrote: > All, > > I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the > trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry > lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare > speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that > is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly > how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of > the issue in this election. > > More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to > respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of > Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a > lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation > to take the helm. > > The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary > Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in > Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of > authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she > says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except > poor judgement. > > And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood > in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable > perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential > candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and > was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of > the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six > figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he > chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the > streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10 > years at the University of Chicago Law School. > > Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at > Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was > sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she > received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their > income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it > says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in > the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some > dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering. > > Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush > years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to > Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and > never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The > Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi > Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from > a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the > dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic > oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in > government. > > In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show > (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable > to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be > inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be > heading instead of arguing about the past. > > Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired. > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE > > Richard Whittingon > > > -- > Whittington & Company > Graphic Design & Marketing Communication > 709 1/2 Texas Ave. > Austin, TX 78705 > > 512.474.9045 p > 512.474.9150 f > > design@whittingtonandco.com > www.whittingtonandco.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > >
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