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> From: ayse.soyer@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:41:16 -0500
> Subject: [Daughters_of_Ataturk] WHY OBAMA :
>
>
> I take my hat off to you Elif Iyriboz for starting this stimulating
> dialogue, however,
> I totally agree with Richard's brief sociopolitical anaysis.
>
> And ,I as a two term staunch supporter of Clinton , I DO NOT FORGIVE them.
> I disagree with the comment: " Whatever these two did wrong
> previously is their responsibility" . I consider this , our, US THE
> DEMOCRATS' responsibility and I do not take it as lightly as Clintons
> did.
> I owe this to my children , to the lives and moral values
> sacrificed for the oil and greed war all over the globe. I see the
> drops of the blood spilled on my hands.
> Therefore ,I do not have the luxury of forgiving a two term leader of
> the USA wo has a great responsibilty navigating this boat right
> into the Bushes!
>
> What we need is not "a ittle change here and there " we need a
> democratic -sociopolitical revolution now. Clintons already have
> proven that they did not deserve the chance to " blaze a new path
> for our country " . Why should I select the one who should be the last
> one to trust!
> Remember the saying "if you are screwed twice , it is your fault"
> .
> It will be naive to beleive or hope that "Hillary and Bill "have
> TOTALLY or SIGNIFICANTLY different political views and moral values.
> It is not only the proverb "meyva agacindan uzaga dusmez" to support
> my view, also the commonsensical question: If the differences were of
> signifant manitude , how come they have been such firm supporters of
> each other? My husband may be a Republican and me a Democrat allright
> but would I be voting for his Party?
> As you can clearly see all they have is "Some differences in their
> agenda" which does not convince me that former first lady IS THE ONE
> who may steer us 90 degrees toward sunrise .. ....
> I strongly beleive ,since this old planet deserves better than just
> "7 degrees change of some of our policies" , we definitely need a
> navigator with new bleached white unstained sails..Lets all give a
> chance to Obama and have Hillary focus on the issues she may make a
> difference..
> Sevgilerime
> ayse
>
> On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz> wrote:
>>
>> Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter.
>> I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not
>> discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've
>> responded to some of your comments below.
>>
>> Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is
>> ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda.
>> Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish
>> Hillary for their failures or misdeeds.
>>
>> Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They
>> were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon
>> agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the
>> inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I
>> agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential
>> candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a
>> country.
>>
>> Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact
>> that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education.
>> However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not
>> impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get
>> into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter
>> appointed her as congressional legal council.
>>
>> Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and
>> at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are
>> singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and
>> sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the
>> fairness in this argument.
>>
>> The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have
>> nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like
>> you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be
>> judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her.
>>
>> You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma.
>> Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very
>> lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this
>> issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She
>> has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's
>> voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on
>> health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to.
>>
>> As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY
>> senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a
>> wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with
>> the republicans.
>>
>>
>> Richard Whittington> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the
>> trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry
>> lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare
>> speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that
>> is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly
>> how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of
>> the issue in this election.
>>
>> More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to
>> respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of
>> Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a
>> lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation
>> to take the helm.
>>
>> The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary
>> Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in
>> Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of
>> authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she
>> says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except
>> poor judgement.
>>
>> And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood
>> in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable
>> perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential
>> candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and
>> was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of
>> the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six
>> figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he
>> chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the
>> streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10
>> years at the University of Chicago Law School.
>>
>> Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at
>> Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was
>> sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she
>> received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their
>> income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it
>> says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in
>> the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some
>> dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering.
>>
>> Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush
>> years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to
>> Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and
>> never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The
>> Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi
>> Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from
>> a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the
>> dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic
>> oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in
>> government.
>>
>> In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show
>> (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable
>> to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be
>> inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be
>> heading instead of arguing about the past.
>>
>> Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired.
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE
>>
>> Richard Whittingon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Whittington & Company
>> Graphic Design & Marketing Communication
>> 709 1/2 Texas Ave.
>> Austin, TX 78705
>>
>> 512.474.9045 p
>> 512.474.9150 f
>>
>> design@whittingtonandco.com
>> www.whittingtonandco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
> I take my hat off to you Elif Iyriboz for starting this stimulating
> dialogue, however,
> I totally agree with Richard's brief sociopolitical anaysis.
>
> And ,I as a two term staunch supporter of Clinton , I DO NOT FORGIVE them.
> I disagree with the comment: " Whatever these two did wrong
> previously is their responsibility" . I consider this , our, US THE
> DEMOCRATS' responsibility and I do not take it as lightly as Clintons
> did. I owe this to my children , to the lives and moral values
> sacrificed for the oil and greed war all over the globe. I see the
> drops of the blood spilled on my hands. Therefore ,I do not have the
> luxury of forgiving a two term leader of the USA wo has a great
> responsibilty navigating this boat right into the Bushes!
>
> What we need is not a ittle change here and there , we need a
> democratic -sociopolitical revolution now. Clintons already have
> proven that they did not deserve the chance to " blaze a new path
> for our country " . Why should I select the one who should be the last
> one to trust!
> Remember the saying "if you are screwed twice , it is your fault"
> .
> It will be naive to beleive or hope that "Hillary and Bill "have
> TOTALLY or SIGNIFICANTLY different political views and moral values.
> It is not only the proverb "meyva agacindan uzaga dusmez" to support
> my view, also the commonsensical question: If the differences were of
> signifant manitude , how come they have been such firm supporters of
> each other? My husband may be a Republican and me a Democrat allright
> but would I be voting for his Party?
> As you can clearly see all they have is "Some differences in their
> agenda" which does not convince me that former first lady IS THE ONE
> who may steer us 90 degrees toward sunrise .. ....
> I strongly beleive ,since this old planet deserves better than just
> "7 degrees change of some of our policies" , we definitely need a
> navigator with new bleached white unstained sails..Lets all give a
> chance to Obama and have Hillary focus on the issues she may make a
> difference..
> Sevgilerime
> ayse
>
> On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz> wrote:
>>
>> Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter.
>> I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not
>> discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've
>> responded to some of your comments below.
>>
>> Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is
>> ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda.
>> Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish
>> Hillary for their failures or misdeeds.
>>
>> Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They
>> were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon
>> agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the
>> inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I
>> agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential
>> candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a
>> country.
>>
>> Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact
>> that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education.
>> However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not
>> impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get
>> into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter
>> appointed her as congressional legal council.
>>
>> Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and
>> at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are
>> singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and
>> sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the
>> fairness in this argument.
>>
>> The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have
>> nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like
>> you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be
>> judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her.
>>
>> You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma.
>> Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very
>> lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this
>> issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She
>> has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's
>> voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on
>> health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to.
>>
>> As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY
>> senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a
>> wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with
>> the republicans.
>>
>>
>> Richard Whittington> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the
>> trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry
>> lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare
>> speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that
>> is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly
>> how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of
>> the issue in this election.
>>
>> More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to
>> respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of
>> Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a
>> lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation
>> to take the helm.
>>
>> The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary
>> Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in
>> Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of
>> authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she
>> says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except
>> poor judgement.
>>
>> And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood
>> in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable
>> perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential
>> candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and
>> was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of
>> the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six
>> figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he
>> chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the
>> streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10
>> years at the University of Chicago Law School.
>>
>> Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at
>> Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was
>> sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she
>> received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their
>> income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it
>> says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in
>> the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some
>> dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering.
>>
>> Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush
>> years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to
>> Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and
>> never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The
>> Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi
>> Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from
>> a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the
>> dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic
>> oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in
>> government.
>>
>> In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show
>> (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable
>> to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be
>> inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be
>> heading instead of arguing about the past.
>>
>> Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired.
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE
>>
>> Richard Whittingon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Whittington & Company
>> Graphic Design & Marketing Communication
>> 709 1/2 Texas Ave.
>> Austin, TX 78705
>>
>> 512.474.9045 p
>> 512.474.9150 f
>>
>> design@whittingtonandco.com
>> www.whittingtonandco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
>> now.
>>
>>
>
> Reply Forward
>
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
>> now.
>>
>>
>
> Reply Forward
>
> On 2/11/08, Elif Iyriboz> wrote:
>>
>> Glad to receive your comments Richard. I am actually Elif, Yuruk's daughter.
>> I value this type of dialogue because it sheds light on topics often not
>> discussed in the media and keeps us focused on issues of importance. I've
>> responded to some of your comments below.
>>
>> Yes, Hillary is part of the same generation as George/Bill but she is
>> ultimately a separate individual with her own accomplishments and agenda.
>> Whatever the previous two did wrong is their responsibility. We can't punish
>> Hillary for their failures or misdeeds.
>>
>> Comparing Cheney/Rummy to Hillary is like comparing Apples and Oranges. They
>> were very successful in manipulating Bush's inexperience for their neocon
>> agenda. They used their extensive resume & experience to coerce the
>> inexperience of the president. This could be what Barack faces if elected. I
>> agree, experience can be overrated, but not in the case of a presidential
>> candidate. As I mentioned previously inspiration alone can not run a
>> country.
>>
>> Barack's accomplishments are admirable. There is no question about the fact
>> that he had to go against the tide throughout his youth and education.
>> However, this does not mean that Hillary's accomplishments are not
>> impressive. Hillary came from a middle class family and worked hard to get
>> into Yale. She worked on Nixon's impeachment after graduating. Later, Carter
>> appointed her as congressional legal council.
>>
>> Majority of the members of senate and congress were successful lawyers, and
>> at one time they all worked for private law firms, including Barack. We are
>> singling out Hillary for having done exactly that at Rose Law Firm and
>> sitting on the corporate board, and holding it against her. I don't see the
>> fairness in this argument.
>>
>> The monetary contributions to Bill Clinton's foundations and library have
>> nothing to do with Hillary. Again, she is a separate individual. It is like
>> you stealing a car and your wife going to jail for it. Hillary should be
>> judged/criticized for her own actions not of others related to her.
>>
>> You have an excellent point about the immensity of the health care dilemma.
>> Health care executives do dominate health care policy. It is a very
>> lucrative business to be in. Americans face a long uphill battle on this
>> issue. In my opinion Hillary's health care plan is superior to Barack's. She
>> has been working on this issue close to twenty years. If we choose Barack's
>> voluntary plan, young and healthy individuals will not spend their money on
>> health insurance. They buy car insurance because they have to.
>>
>> As far as beating John McCain, we can look at her reelection as a NY
>> senator. She got both democratic and republican votes and was elected by a
>> wide margin, which shows that she can reach to the other side and work with
>> the republicans.
>>
>>
>> Richard Whittington> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I think the problem both candidates face is the dismantling of the
>> trillion dollar plus health insurance and pharmaceutical industry
>> lock on the system now in place. Political candidates cannot dare
>> speak of a single payer system even though I believe in the end that
>> is the best solution. I don't think either candidate knows exactly
>> how to solve this problem but I think they realize the importance of
>> the issue in this election.
>>
>> More importantly, who can blaze a new path for our country. I have to
>> respectfully differ with my friend Yuruk on his endorsement of
>> Hillary Clinton. I think my generation (Bush/Clinton era) has done a
>> lousy job in the White House and it is time for the next generation
>> to take the helm.
>>
>> The pundits speak of Obama's lack of experience compared to Hillary
>> Clinton. I say Rumsfeld and Cheney had the longest resumes in
>> Washington and look where that took us. Hillary voted in support of
>> authorizing Bush to take military action in Iraq. No matter what she
>> says today there is not an excuse that can be made for this except
>> poor judgement.
>>
>> And what experience does Obama have? He lived part of his childhood
>> in another country. I think this can give him a unique and invaluable
>> perspective on the world that we have not had in any presidential
>> candidate. Obama came from a difficult childhood and modest means and
>> was still able get into Harvard Law School and become President of
>> the Harvard Law Review. When he graduated he could have taken a six
>> figure starting salary at any number of prestigious law firms but he
>> chose to do grass roots social work as a community organizer on the
>> streets of Chicago. He taught constitutional law for more than 10
>> years at the University of Chicago Law School.
>>
>> Hillary came from privilege. From 1977-1993 Hillary worked at
>> Arkansas largest law firm, the Rose Law Firm. Hillary Clinton was
>> sitting on the board of Wal-Mart (1986-1992) during which time she
>> received over $225K. The Clinton's have refused to release their
>> income tax returns. Of course, these aren't crimes but I think it
>> says a lot about who she really is aside from her failed efforts in
>> the White House to change health care and her trying to maintain some
>> dignity in respect to Bill Clinton's serial philandering.
>>
>> Bill Clinton's presidency looks great if you compare it to the Bush
>> years but he more responsible for Al Gore losing the presidency to
>> Bush than anyone. He has never taken responsibility for this and
>> never will. Some other things Bill has been up to include: The
>> Clinton Library funding includes more than $10 million from the Saudi
>> Royal family. The Clinton Library received more than $32 million from
>> a Canadian business man for brokering a Uranium mining deal with the
>> dictator of Kasakhstan. I think all this speaks to a dynastic
>> oligarchy peddling power and influence... or more of the same in
>> government.
>>
>> In the end, who can beat John McCane this Fall. All the polls show
>> (granted polls are notoriously flawed) Clinton is far more vulnerable
>> to a centrist like McCane than Obama. More than anything I want to be
>> inspired by someone that has a vision of where the country might be
>> heading instead of arguing about the past.
>>
>> Check out this speech if you wan to be inspired.
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE
>>
>> Richard Whittingon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Whittington & Company
>> Graphic Design & Marketing Communication
>> 709 1/2 Texas Ave.
>> Austin, TX 78705
>>
>> 512.474.9045 p
>> 512.474.9150 f
>>
>> design@whittingtonandco.com
>> www.whittingtonandco.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
>> now.
>>
>>
>
>
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